Fmr. Asst. US Atty. Anthony Bruce- The Mueller Russia Probe

Dave Debo
Sunday, October 29th

Based on the way these things unfold , Bruce offers insght into possible targets, arrests and indictments

00:19:34

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

It's hard line on news radio 930 WB and this is Dave. And I put the asterisk on that because at this point it's all very educated guesses I think. Robert Mueller at a special prosecutor looking into the financial dealings of a number of key term associates. Has basically said that now five months into the start of a probe that could connect to Russia to the trump campaign. That there's an indictment. We don't know what's in the indictment. There is an indication at least that an arrest could come as early as tomorrow. Mueller and his team have been basically poking into this for the past five months investigating for the Justice Department. Whether anyone associated with president trumps 2016 White House campaign colluded with Russia to influence the outcome. On Friday night's CNN was the first jump in and say that most team has filed charges here. The Wall Street Journal reported yesterday that anyone charged could be taken or will be they actually said will be taken into custody on Monday. However the charges are still sealed by a federal judge so whoever is charged and whether the charges or criminal remains unclear. Where that in mind let's find out a little bit more about what might be happening. What we can learn about what could be happening based on the way these things unfold requires us to go to someone who knows how these things unfold. And let's bring in Anthony Bruce he's a former US prosecutor in west New York with the US attorney's office and thanks for joining us sir. What do you think based on the way this is happening is there any indication that that there any any really good guess that you can make and say. Because of XY. No I mean. Has any number of people that he bit of news the wire services news source of cities look into. It could be any of those people could be Michael Flynn could be. Paul airport could be herb page could be secured partner Donald Trump junior we just. Don't know and jump in and say it's it's a certain person to point. I would be pure speculation and probably would be unfair to those people. I remember at the time that then recently fired FBI director James comic. Testified publicly before. Congress either the house of the senate. At that time some of the analysis said if he's talking this much. Mueller must have given him a pass and said it's OK for him to speak out publicly. Therefore let's turn that coin movement. Is the fact that this is still sealed in being released this way indicative of anything does it does speak to the process that it's closed this way or. Or indeed is that the way it should be. No this fairly routine I mean he's if he's sure somebody in these church somebody he's he's filed that they with court. Yes of course Sealy indictment. Indictment itself is a finding of probable cause that a crime was committed and has sufficient. For the court to issue an arrest warrant for water or two or five or however many people. And that will remain sealed effective date or may seal and so he's one of those persons brought before the court and it is fairly routine. Talk about the timeline. Are you surprised in any way or again is indicative and I think. That this took five months. Know a private citizen in a federal investigation. Especially if federal investigations complex of this as this it is not. It is indicative of nothing in fact I was surprised it was this quick. I've heard that too that that was sort of fairly speedy as these things go. All right now I've watched enough law and order on TV to release put this theory out there and I'm hoping some with your background can tell me how about that is. In any of those kind of cases or or in the mystery novels that we've probably all read. Yeah always go after the mid level drug dealer before you go after the king pin. Is there anything in here to suggest that they're starting with small fish rather than big fish. Forty and not even charge small office. That's difficult to say. Well. That with the special prosecutor has a mandate to look into the idea of Russian collusion and obstruction by the president. If you find decrying. What he believes the crime committed by somebody that. Group of people that he's looking at certainly he's entitled massacre injury to file charges against that person. Whether that person can replicate somewhat above them or not it's equal have to kind of wait and see. Home. Low hanging fruit maybe. Generally speaking it was my experience if he had someone who use social change through. It's slipped he would go to that directly and say look. Here's the Casey issue you can improve your position. Are cooperating and will charge on the road. It's as usual to try and bring cooperate in Bahrain tonight that may be an indication the operator of the person they're looking at cooperated sitting on doctor cooperate and they said okay we're gonna charge. And they do just that so it's a good question as to why this is what it is this point. If his overarching mandate is to probe specifically Russia and possible collusion. What happens if along the way he finds incidental crime. Against speculation here. There was a lot of vote leaks last week and the week before that about Paul man a force real estate deals coming under scrutiny. They even according some reports brought in one of his brokers looking at the sale of his house. If the mandate is ax but along the way they discover. Something incidentally. Illegal. Would that be the kind of thing they could be charging on Monday. It could be. He's he's he's not. Precluded from church in someone. Well with the current that he finds incidental to his investigation so again that's. Another history we can be looking we just don't know. All right and and another thing that we often hero by I'm thinking of the Martha Stewart case ultimately they did not charge her with the insider trading have but they ended up convicting her on perjury. Could that be a scenario we're looking at here as well. I think it's a good. That isn't as somewhat likely scenario one of those things. One of the bottom lines all of this chase says that borrowers looking at is. To people I have financial disclosure forms to people lie on on the security clearance forms. To people lied to investigators. Possibly have people come in the march for injury lied to Decker injury. Why this could be the basis for just about anything that he chargers that's a very good possibility. And the partisans could argue that that's outside his mandate talk a little bit about. The whole creation of a special prosecutor and what he's allowed to do. Well special prosecutors in entitled to appropriate to whatever. Rob rose scene told him that he could that he could inquire into and out the other end. See the grand jury at the whole idea of making false statements so sacred to our justice system. The debt falls easily with in his indeed someone came into smaller brain injury slide. And if he could prove it. I can almost bet that more would go after it was perjury indictment or for that matter. Just as a matter of preserving his own personal integrity in the investigation that. What he has integrity investigation that's much more personal attack. The integrity investigation yes people have to oh. On the when he talked to an FBI agent when he testified for an injury. They don't soldiers there. Is the mandate the Mahler faced initially. Significantly broad that he can basically do anything talk a little bit about the way that today he was appointed. Well do anything no he can't do that for instance if you think sites that are occurring can't investigate me. If he thinks that any one of the people who was involved presidential campaign was involved with a crime. I think under the mandate he can look into I've not seen a mandate itself but I think Andy is broad enough to seek it. Some of the defenders of the trump administration this morning are arguing that this is a leak. This is horrible this is a way to try and smear some of the people that are under investigation. Is that in any way relevant to you. No I mean this stuff shouldn't get out it is a leak. But in the end it's it's not a big deal orders there early to all the time in weeks it's been a pretty. Pretty slowly because all the press services all the worse services are doing all kinds of speculation. Nobody knows a whole lot. Yeah yeah and the actual name of the person is not been revealed. Is the arrest warrant. Or something that is public and tell her before the arrest is made. Not that that's held by I would assume it is point time. Law office in the FBI we normally about debt to see it it's just a piece of paper that just tells the FBI to go out. And gone grab acts and why. At some point in any court proceeding that I've seen there's usually a criminal complaint filed an affidavit from often the FBI saying. I I Joseph investigator believes this to be true I've interacted with someone so and here's what happened is is that what we're likely to see tomorrow. Is an unveiling of the charges or will we get the indictment. Talked procedurally in that regard. If if what I've seen in the news. At this point that is correct or you're gonna see tomorrow is an indictment there's not going to be complaint. Wouldn't there have to be a complaint in order for there to be the arrest. No if you have a complaint utility in magistrate judge hear the facts judge please authorized and issued arrest war for the person. If you have an indictment you put those same effect for the grand jury. The grand jury says yes based on that we think there's we think there's probable cause to believe that crimes committed. They file an indictment. In the probable cause it's ordinarily you would present the magistrate judge. Played situation. Is or even senate agree injury indictment is enough to get restless. Are there scenarios under which the person involved here. Will be arrested tomorrow without us seeing the indictment. Well be arrested without anybody seeing indictment. It they'll become public at the point that when that person walks in the courtroom. OK so at some point the indictment tomorrow assuming the arrest comes tomorrow the unsealing is also than automatic. It. Is there any. Thing you can add about what you're expecting. No. Well I almost think that tomorrow. The public will be a little bit disappointed there's not going to be any. I don't think any huge indictment which implicates the president and anything I don't think any of that I don't think we're at that point. It's now five months is just too short for that. We're gonna see somebody. As I said before who lies somewhere on some statement or two grid urea or something like that. That's my take on what's gonna happen or that person's going to be church and force with some sort of Allstate. But not necessarily indicative of the the broader mandate find clues. I'd be really surprised I. Again it's speculation but I would be truly surprised. 8030930s. Or number. Anthony Bruce is with us former prosecutor assistant US attorney in Western New York someone who can talk a lot about the procedures and and that we both have admitted so far. That we don't know much about exactly how this is going to come down but it has been revealed that Robert Mueller the special prosecutor in Washington. As procured an indictment. And that an arrest will be coming on Monday somehow connected to perhaps his investigation. Of collusion between the term campaign and Russia. 8030930 let's take Kabul or cause we will squeeze a break in there as well. John in Rochester you pick it off forced the morning. They gave me Antony. Entity like let these concerns with Mueller distance just cut the conflict. Then he can't going there. Morris political Leo left wing. Blocks. They had talked about the GPS scandal and the Clinton foundation scandal would. You'll order. Being part the FBI at this point. Income overlooked. It is is friendship with seems always just this all really. Think Natalia is it is giving the federal government the FBI. In the Justice Department the Obama Justice Department. Really. Who lacks credibility. The eight of the American public are really disappointed. In and have a lot of distrust for the system the FBI included in the Justice Department what are your thoughts there. Well I'm not. I know what you talking about to GPS thing but I don't see. And again and I. Am not that familiar with a but I don't see any connection. Between Moeller and motors out of government is brought Beckett fires experts ago. He's been out of the government for at least three years. What would uranium we were you know I'm uranium one be electric got a match and evil is the FBI. Their point and he he ignored it out that the unit of potato patches in the. John are you saying that the fact that he ignored that while he was with the FBI. Means he's biased now in this investigation that should be looking at it is that you're content and. Well like consecutive Muller shoes I would. He has such a big conflict here and I think he could be implicated. In this uranium one deal when he looked the other way and it is not investigating yet. And for you that's relevant they collusion investigation how just we've got John on. Well well because he has a conflict of interest he's gonna put do everything we can't protect. Did real bad and go after trump connection with the Russians what. What relative to the fact that little bit connection with the Democrats. The Clinton foundation uranium one deal was Denard he's protecting his rear end because he could be under serious. Maybe even criminal behavior. All right what do you say Anthony Bruce. I just don't have enough information to comment on what he's talking about. OK tell me and then a little bit about the procedure that put. Robert Mueller in place here. Not only the idea of of mission creep but also by his selection as the guy to do this if there were ethical concerns from the beginning. Would they have ended up selecting somebody else talk a little bit about that process. Let me take Federer sorters there're ethical concerns from the very beginning. At least we know ethical concerns in the very beginning mower would not have been selected. I think that. Jim Colby when he made his statement to congress. And later already made statements impressed me very very clear that she thought. Things were going on here is it needed. Special counsel to investigate them because anybody within that just was just. Too close to them at that point time and that caused. Well Rosie seemed to appoint Mueller has special counsel. I ate and I met Bob Mueller personally I don't from the distance. She is a very hard charging. Very ethical. But very fair prosecutor and if if there are things out there that should be investigated investigate. There are things out there that he looks that says this is stuff that we wasting your time on civil war was something else. All right talk about his mandate talk about the size of his mission in any sense of mission creep. I they think here is a little bit of mission creep here but I think it is you go where the evidence take shoot. I think this is cover but what we talked about before. If in the course of the investigation here encourage the crime. Perhaps was not necessarily covered by his original mandate. Can he go ahead and charge a crime. The answer simply is yes. Certainly can't overlook get any would have to refer back to the the United States attorney for the district where crime occurred and let that United States Terry take a long look at this sort order and other. He comes across what he thinks is criminal activity. It's going to be brought it's going to be either prosecuted by him. Were brought the attention of some other prosecutors not just going to be thrown in the waste. In in light of that does the geography here matter the fact that this indictment is coming out of Washington is that. Just because she's a Washington based prosecutor does that tell us something about the substance. You know I didn't think about that every indictment. Has to be its proper venue and other were at least some part of the crime that is certainly a major part of the crime that some part of the current. Has to occur within the judicial district. All worthy indictment is returned so what we know at least is this some part of the crimes that he's charged occurred in in the District of Columbia. Although I understand he's also Algeria's good Granger in the northern district of Virginia so. We we probably can. Or missing make an assumption that we can infer as I said before. That this indictment has something to do a false statement by mail false statement from buffalo to Washington DC. Venue for that false statement is in the Western New York. It's also Washington DC where somebody opens it up and read the envelope for opens up the attachments email whatever maybe. Here's one up our techs like a question from someone. Mahan sitting president be indicted early mentioned when you're running off the names of people possibly indicted. That. Theoretically it could include the president can he be indicted here. He can be indicted. But during the course during a terror of his presidency he can't be held in answer for the chargers. Okay let's quickly and I I regret doing this let's quickly squeeze and were were really firm break. Let's quickly squeeze in one more call here Tim in Cheektowaga he questioned and then we'll move on. Think certainly aren't quick question for Anthony. Column isn't appointment of Robert Mueller as special prosecutor in that supposedly based on validated crime. Not being window of one all right. We we sort of touched on that we have about thirty seconds left. Anthony Bruce go ahead. No first sort O like the word innuendo. But no not validated crime there's ability crimes some prosecutor would simply charge that could go off and prosecute. There is well there are a lot of allegations of wrongdoing here. Whether they're whether they're accurate or whether they're founded we don't know footballer and it communities to go after those those allegations of wrongdoing. And how long of a process are we looking at here after the arrest in the indictment ultimately being unsealed tomorrow. Trial of some sort could drag on for a long time right. We're just getting to the truck could drag on for some time. If it's a false statement case which I suspect to the case itself would be along cased tribe that. Getting to try you're talking any number of months or more to get to try to. All right Anthony Bruce thanks for your expertise this morning led you to join us. Interesting stuff. Particularly true. Off to the football game with you now.
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